Réponse à WADDY

thanks peter, really interesting, like each time

 

peter 

petit (tu parles!!) est très bien j'avais pas eu le temps de traduire!!!!

sympa pour la traduction car avec google, c'est pas vraiment ça...

Hito - you are confusing 'pigmentation' with 'pattern', two entirely different subjects.

Pigmentation refers to 'quality' or 'skin' or 'texture' in Go-Sanke varieties and 'shine' in metallic and gin rin varieties. It also applies to texture in Kawari varieties such as Chagoi, Kigoi etc.

Beni pigmentation varies tremendously in high quality Go-Sanke tosai which varies from yellow to orange and many are selected by the breeder as future tategoi. These Koi will gather 'layers' of beni which 'thicken' over the years to produce the true beni that commands high prices and is stable. However, this class of tosai - although they can be purchased - are rarely seen for sale as most importers dare not take this risk that they can sell because the purchase price is high and they are not available in quantity.

The very bright beni pigmentation seen in many Go-Sanke tosai is usually after they have been fed quantities of colour-enhancing food to also 'money-enhance' the price. These are always cheap to purchase as the beni will generally diminish or disappear in later years.

Regarding 'pattern' - you are right in what you say. I have lost count at the number of times that Koi Judges (especially ZNA Judges) tell me 'Pattern is not important'.

Let me tell you this, when I am looking into a pond of Koi for the very first time - irrespective of size. The first thing that hits me is pattern and pattern only. If that is acceptable then I will have the Koi placed in an inspection bowl and study the shiroji and pigmentation close up to my eyes - if this is not good I will return the Koi to the pond. But if pattern and pigmentation is fine, I will then study the frame and if that is promising then I will buy. This is advice I would also ask you to consider strongly.

If we look at things logically 'Pattern' is the single most aspect that makes a Koi totally unique and the Japanese breeders also know this despite what the so-called Judges continue to state.

Hope this reply helps but it would take pages upon pages to try and explain properly.

Peter.   [/quote]

Hito - tu confonds 'pigmentation' et 'pattern', deux sujets entièrement différents.

La pigmentation se réfère à la 'qualité' ou la 'peau' ou la 'texture' pour les variétés Go-Sanke et l''éclat' pour les variétés métalliques et Ginrin. Elle s'applique aussi à la texture pour les variétés Kawari comme la Chagoi, Kigoi, etc...

Le Beni varie énormément avec les Tosai Go-Sanke de haute qualité qui varient du jaune à l'orange et beaucoup sont sélectionnés par le Breeder comme futur Tategoi. Ces Koi réuniront plusieurs 'couches' de Beni qui s'épaissiront au fil des années pour produire le 'vrai' Beni qui induit les prix élevés et la stabilité. Pourtant, cette classe de Tosai - bien qu'ils puissent être achetés - sont rarement vus en vente car la plupart des importateurs n'osent pas prendre le risque de les vendre parce que le prix d'achat est élevé et qu'ils ne sont pas disponibles en quantité.

Le Beni très brillant de beaucoup de Tosai Go-Sanke est courant après qu'ils aient été nourris de quantité de nourriture pour rehausser les couleurs,  pour aussi rehausser leurs prix. Ceux-ci sont toujours bon marché car le Beni diminura généralement ou disparaitra dans les années à venir.

Regardez le 'Pattern' - tu as raison dans ce que tu dis. Je ne compte plus le nombre de fois que les juges (spécialement les juges de la ZNA) m'ont répondu le 'Pattern n'est pas important'.

Laisse moi te raconter ceci, quand je regarde un bassin à Koi pour la première fois - sans tenir compte de la taille.  La première chose qui me frappe est le pattern et le pattern seulement. Si c'est acceptable alors je place le Koi dans une bassine bleue (=bowl) et je me focalise sur le Shiroji et la pigmentation - si ceci n'est pas bon je remets la Koi dans le bassin. Mais si le pattern et la pigmentation sont excellents, je regarde ensuite la charpente et si c'est prometteur alors je l'achète. C'est le conseil que je te demande de considérer fortement.

Si nous regardons les choses logiquement le 'Pattern' est le plus simple aspect qui rend une Koi totalement unique et les Breeders japonais savent aussi celà malgré ce que les soi-disant juges continuent d'affirmer.

En espérant que cette réponse aide mais il faudrait des pages et des pages pour essayer d'expliquer convenablement.

Peter

Thanks

You're right. I'm confusing pigmentation with pattern.

very interesting

 

thanks for answers peter

 

a bible this man ... is it possible possible for you to dream again?..cause you have all see so now...

Hito - you are confusing 'pigmentation' with 'pattern', two entirely different subjects.

Pigmentation refers to 'quality' or 'skin' or 'texture' in Go-Sanke varieties and 'shine' in metallic and gin rin varieties. It also applies to texture in Kawari varieties such as Chagoi, Kigoi etc.

Beni pigmentation varies tremendously in high quality Go-Sanke tosai which varies from yellow to orange and many are selected by the breeder as future tategoi. These Koi will gather 'layers' of beni which 'thicken' over the years to produce the true beni that commands high prices and is stable. However, this class of tosai - although they can be purchased - are rarely seen for sale as most importers dare not take this risk that they can sell because the purchase price is high and they are not available in quantity.

The very bright beni pigmentation seen in many Go-Sanke tosai is usually after they have been fed quantities of colour-enhancing food to also 'money-enhance' the price. These are always cheap to purchase as the beni will generally diminish or disappear in later years.

Regarding 'pattern' - you are right in what you say. I have lost count at the number of times that Koi Judges (especially ZNA Judges) tell me 'Pattern is not important'.

Let me tell you this, when I am looking into a pond of Koi for the very first time - irrespective of size. The first thing that hits me is pattern and pattern only. If that is acceptable then I will have the Koi placed in an inspection bowl and study the shiroji and pigmentation close up to my eyes - if this is not good I will return the Koi to the pond. But if pattern and pigmentation is fine, I will then study the frame and if that is promising then I will buy. This is advice I would also ask you to consider strongly.

If we look at things logically 'Pattern' is the single most aspect that makes a Koi totally unique and the Japanese breeders also know this despite what the so-called Judges continue to state.

Hope this reply helps but it would take pages upon pages to try and explain properly.

Peter.  

Hello Peter,

My question is about the pattern of Tosai.

I always heard that a Tosai with a strong pattern (deep sumi, snowwhite shiroji...) could never develop more colors. Pattern is at the top and it becomes dull to growing. This Tosai has "no futur".

But when I watch videos of Sembetsu, it seems breeders cull their best Tosai amongst that ones justly are a strong pattern.

What is a Tosai with a "futur" ?

regards, Hito.

Bonjour Peter,

Ma question porte sur le pattern du Tosai.

J'ai toujours entendu dire qu'un Tosai avec un pattern prononcé (sumi profond, shiroji blanc comme neige...) ne pourrait plus développer de couleurs. Le pattern est au top et il devient fade en grandissant. Ce Tosai n'a pas de futur.

Mais quand je regarde des vidéos de Sembetsu, il me semble que les breeder sélectionnent leurs meilleurs Tosai parmi ceux qui ont justement un pattern prononcé.

Qu'est-ce qu'un Tosai avec du futur ?

 

Je ne suis pas spécialiste mais à ce que j'ai pu comprendre c'est le Body avant tout.

mais peter tout autant que la taille les breeders ont aussi cherché à améliorer le tsuya et fukurin, et le pattern, non?